Half banana

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Posts by Half banana

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  26

  Why doesn't God need a creator, while the Universe does?

  by Bloody Hotdogs! in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i asked this question of a jw that called on me yesterday: "if the universe requires a creator, why doesn't god?

  if the universe must have a beginning, why doesn't god?

  he claims to have an answer, but it must wait for next time he calls.. i'm hoping you guys can give me a heads-up as to what he will say.

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  Half banana

  Nobody is as yet in a position to say precisely how the universe came to be but God indeed does have a creator. God is the product of the human imagination.
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  54

  Paranoia after today's Watchtower

  by Truthexplorer in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  boy oh boy did i feel paranoid at today's wt.

  not only are we to watch our associations outside of the congregation, but also watch our associations 'within' the congregation.

  this was emphasised by the wt study conductor.

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  Half banana

  The neurosis they are recommending will soon get to the pitch where you will begin to have doubts about associating with yourself!
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  7

  The mythical meaning of the “Lord’s Supper” was revealed to Paul by Christ, not by any man

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the following is from: christian beginnings, geza vermes pages 91, 92, 98.

  paul inherited from his predecessors a second great cult practice, the communal meal, referred to as the breaking of the bread as well as thanksgiving or eucharist in greek.

  as in the case of baptism, paul supplied a new meaning to the community meal and turned it into an imitation and repetition of the lords supper.

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  Half banana

  When examining the "last supper" it is worth considering the ritual within the experience of Romans familiar with their favorite cult; that of the Great Shepherd and Saviour, Mithra.

  Paul wrote in Antioch which at the time was a centre of Mithraism and in the first century with no Christian Bible available, Paul was in a position to dictate his personal vision and write it down. Posterity and the Roman Church deciding that his words would constitute the orthodox view.

  Mithraism was a mystery cult in other words it was for initiates only, as in any such group the holy 'secrets' would have leaked out and the last supper of Mithras with its symbols for blood and body is a template for the Pauline version. This was part of the synchretising of dogma; the absorption of much of pagan belief and ritual culminating in the all embracing nature or "catholic" belief of the early church.
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  16

  Attention Lurkers... Monday, October 1, 2012 is the 98th anniversary of Jesus' rulership!!!

  by Calebs Airplane in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  attention lurkers... monday, october 1, 2012 is the 98th anniversary of jesus' rulership!i'll just let the watchtower magazine speak for itself...october 1, 1914, on taking his place at the breakfast table in the brooklyn bethel dining-room, he in a strong voice denoting conviction announced: the gentile times have ended!

  -watchtower july 15 1950 page 216 pargraph 1 those seven appointed times of the nations ended in the early autumn of 1914, about october 1. before then the good news of the established kingdom could not be preached.

  -watchtower october 15 1955 page 623 paragraph 7october 1, 1914, is now more than forty-two years ago and the kingdoms fight at armageddon is fast nearing.

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  Half banana

  When I read the sacred pronouncements of the leading lights of the WT org I am reminded of the total and utter waste of time it is to listen to that worthless corporation. EVERYTHING they say is either misleading or wrong.
• 
  35

  When did the Great Crowd start forming?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i realize that rutherford received a flash of light regarding the identity of the gc in the year 1935, but that does not tell us when the crowd began to form.

  what would be the earliest date?

  any ideas or quotes from wt literature?

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  Half banana

  Vanderhoven, Rutherford's flash of inspiration as you put it, has an interesting origin which I found in a book in the British Museum Library. (Religious Sects by B WIlson 1970 Wiedenfeld and Nicholson p.194)

  I suggest there is no tangible evidence for such thing as a ”great crowd” or “other sheep” they are simply evolved religious fictions but the development of JW doctrine is interesting nevertheless ...truth on the other hand never needs to evolve.

  Since dogma doesn’t grow on trees; it is nearly always borrowed from earlier versions, often recruited to serve a new purpose but in this case Rutherford stole the idea to meet the requirement of a failing older teaching about the 144k which was becoming implausible, for it was projected that soon there would be more than that number of JWs! How then to fudge the figures?

  An earlier incarnation of two hopes was proposed by a Watchtower Bible Student called Alexander Freytag who after the failure of the 1914 teaching and the death of Russell, looked again at a new meaning in the scriptures. Being a threat to Rutherford's imperial power ambitions, Freytag was expelled from the organisation. As B Wilson put it:

  "Freytag intending men to overcome death and separating after the 1914 disappointment, started a new sect based on altruism borrowing from Spencer and Kropotkin...i.e. health and millennialism, the law of just deserts".This included the groupings of a heaven-bound little flock (petite troupeau) and a great crowd (Armee de l'Eternel) who would live on earth.

  This splinter group, which I believe still exists today in continental Europe, mangles Russellite teachings with a health-conscious, non-smoking life style. As with Russell and the Watchtower control, Freytag's death was marked by an acrimonious leadership takeover and yet further splintering.

  Freytag's concept of 'two hopes' was hastily re-cycled to resolve a doctrinal failure in 1935 by the crapulent Rutherford.(I think crapulent describes him well!) Freytag’s doctrine was foisted on the newly named Jehovah's Witnesses... and the dumb sheep followed the drunken shepherd.

  So there it is, Rutherford stole the idea of two hopes from an apostate.
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  7

  Saved

  by Stephanie Twist in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  how can a person be saved?

  do jw believe that we are saved through the blood of jesus?

  bible verses?

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  Half banana

  Ever since childhood I thought; who needs saving? What from? It's like wearing a hard hat and life-belt in the middle of the desert.

  It's religious jargon for gullible believers. To believe you need to be saved, means you come under the control of others who can guide you to salvation whilst taking the contributions.
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  19

  "New Light never contradicts Old Light, but simply adds to it"

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  does anyone remember this classic quote from a society publication??.

  i remember it has been quoted many times, but i cant find the reference.. if this comment is to be taken literally, it condemns the organization anytime there has been a complete changes in teachings and doctrine!

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  Half banana

  Watchtower "new light" is so special that it can actually stamp out and replace old light completely, you know, trivial things like Bible teachings... So bright is this new light that it can in fact dispense with the Bible all together and direct people to the real hope for mankind: the JW organisation.

  For those not familiar with JW org, it is a charity run by a group of amateur clowns for their own benefit.
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  23

  How Jehovah's Witnesses could become a huge mainstream religion without harming people. Any thoughts?

  by JWchange in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if jws did the following, i believe they would grow exponentially and become one of the largest 'religions' on earth : .

  1. no more dfing or shunning......its up to your conscience who you like or don't like.

  in the same way if i was catholic living in ireland, i wouldn't hang out with my neighbor if she was a drunk fornicator, just had an abortion, had a taliban boyfriend and also supported liverpool soccer club.

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  Half banana

  From a financial perspective to go mainstream would make sense. Cut out Jehovah, Armageddon, field service and shunning and make it a Bible club. The GB would have to contritely admit their instigation and complicity in all the blood related deaths and the suicides from personal conflicts with their dogma, and their doctrinal error and false prophecy and the fundamental mistake in believing the Roman Catholic selection of Bible books and the elevation of these texts to become inerrant divine words. The Gb would lastly and publicly have to humbly admit they were never inspired by God or used as his exclusive agency.

  Not much to ask! ...but it would take the nastiness out of the cult.
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  16

  Is Watchtower beginning to buckle

  by Truthexplorer in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  is wt beginning to buckle under the weight of everything that is happening?

  heavy criticism from the media and the plethora of websites and youtube videos popping up; and now the obvious issues with finances clearly evident.

  the pressure for change must be immense and therefore necessary!

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  Half banana

  They may have significant losses of $82 million shortfall over the last three years if Flipper's figures are right, with big investment losses on top from the stock market down turn from 2008. Abuse cases threatening more expenditure compounded with a big downturn in donation enthusiasm among the ranks. Then we have humiliation in front of the Royal Commission, it all adds up to unprecedented pressure on the credibility of the JWorg.

  WTBTS must be at a low ebb... and from Tight Pants Tony's last appearance on the JW TV extravaganza, I think they must feel like they are sitting on a volcano. He made the broadcast looking like he was hiding in the studio whilst the mafia were pacing up and down outside for not receiving the monthly payments. His body language betrayed his lack of belief in the script he was reading! This approach will send subliminal messages to the rank and file that all is not well in HQ. Bethel members will do the same in the congos to which they are assigned and however they spin it, the sensitive ones will recognise a loss of confidence and withdraw support. Within the investment circles they will also lose respect, sic transit gloria mundi.
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  23

  TV.JW.ORG - October 2015: Neighborly love is more than just Field Service

  by Designer Stubble in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the october 2015 jw broadcast, hosted by gerrit losch is quite positive actually.a lot of focus on "field service" needs to be balanced with other good works - supporting those in need around you - either in the congregation (witnesses) or in your classroom or neighbors (non-witnesses).

  visiting and encouraging the sick and elderly is mentioned.

  jesus parable of the merciful samaritan is highlighted.

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  Half banana

  I agree with you OEJ "charity" will be for gaining converts, not from the heart.

  I remember a brute of an elder declaring that charity is to Jehovah like a red rag is to a bull, implying that charitable works annoy Big J because they detract from the kingdom as the only answer.

  Well well! since the kingdom has now failed to turn up, perhaps old fashioned charity is a good alternative.

  This new direction makes the GB look like they are no longer strong arm men dictating what should or should not be believed because now they listen to the superior authorities.

  This might be the end of the road for JW independence and their all round nastiness. How about charity towards those who have left the org?

  They could dissolve into a lame and declining cult within conventional Christianity...